How Do Tuners Tune?

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How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by CASH XRS on Wed May 09, 2012 4:49 pm

Hey guys, firstly, I know there are awesome videos and links put up on this forum to tutorials on how and what to tune. But I wanted to get into the minds of the tuners a little bit more. For example, Tainted Productions' advanced tuning video shows what to adjust for what, how and all kinds of things. Now I could be wrong, but I feel like it is and should be unnecessary to have to adjust every little thing on a car to get it the way you want it to be. So here are just some questions I wanna ask any of the tuners (even if you don't consider yourself a "great" tuner share your thoughts!!), feel free to go even further with answers.

1. Is there 1 or 2 specific things you focus on first with every tune?

2. Do you prefer to use something like Slave Munky's calculator or start from scratch yourself?

3. Do you have a specific pecking order of things you adjust? For example, Tire pressures, ARB's, Camber, Spring rate etc etc until you have the feel you want in the car?

4. Do you adjust everything you can in the car and then test it out, or do you find yourself adjusting one thing at a time and see if it helps?

5. Do you keep adjusting one thing until that adjustment gets you to where you wanna be? Or do you put it back to the default location and go to adjust something else?

6. Are there certain "default values" you guys look for in the telemetries in your replays?

In regards to 6, I know things like tire temperatures should be between 180-210dF and the inners should be no more than 10dF hotter than the outters. Are there other things you look for while tuning that you feel help the easiest/most?

Just a few of the questions. I wanted to put this up as kind of a tid-bit type thread for guys (like myself) who wanna try tuning themselves but don't know exactly where to start.

So what do YOU do to tune?

- Cash
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Wed May 09, 2012 5:56 pm

Let me answer your questions first...

1. Is there 1 or 2 specific things you focus on first with every tune?
Yes... I get a base tune in place and saved... The base tune includes setting all of the base SMTC output with the exception of Spring Rate and Ride Height. I start w/ minimum ride height and use Xtreme Skills (XS) formula (the calc I put together) to set the springs. I don't actually use the XS numbers but I use the numbers to adjust the Spring Rate percentages in SMTC. I get it as close as I can and then use that for a base. Why use dial in SMTC to the XS numbers? Because you can than play with the % in SMTC as you tune. Remember though... If you change the downforce, right height or weight, re-calibrate the SMTC spring rate % to the XS output.... This all sounds complicate, but it's VERY easy....

2. Do you prefer to use something like Slave Munky's calculator or start from scratch yourself?
I use a tool to start.... You don't have to use SMTC per say (but it is the best all-around). There are two apps for iPhones (Forza Tune 4 and Forza 4 Gear) that work well, and I think there is one for the Android based devices (Forza Tune 4 I think)... I also use the Xtreme Skills formula (found in VVV Worm's guide - I've also build a spread sheet to calculate spring rates based on the XSF as well).

3. Do you have a specific pecking order of things you adjust? For example, Tire pressures, ARB's, Camber, Spring rate etc etc until you have the feel you want in the car?
Absolutley....
  1. run a few test laps and test turn-in. You are looking for under/over-steer condition and overall response.
  2. If you are using SMTC, 100% spring rates are too high. I usually will start with XSF 1.6x results (you'll understand that once you us the XS Calc I built).
    That is roughly 60%-80% of what the SMTC has at 100% Spring rate. SMTC doesn't seem to factor in Ride Height or Down-Force in it's spring rate calc.
    To test your spring rate you need to watch telemetry on you test laps. Keep the suspension travel graphs up as you drive. What you are looking for are suspension bottom-outs that happen way to often. you are not goign to be able to completely eliminate them, but you should only see it go red during extreme transitions and over rumble strips.
  3. Once I feel like I have the spring rates i a good place, I move on to the ARB's. I usually will end up with between 75% and 90% of the SMTC base ARB number and have it set to between 60%-70% stiffness up front. I say usually because not all cars are the same... FWD cars are totally different and AWD cars are tough to get dialed in...
  4. After the ARB's and I run some hot-laps (at least 5) and save the replay. I review the replay and watch the tire temps beginning at lap 4 (the detailed tire temp - color changing screen). What I look for is that the inside is hotter than the outside on average, and that the temps across all 3 surfaces (inside/center/outside) are firmly between 185dF and 195dF. If it's too low or to high, I adjust the pressure.
  5. I do my final fine tuning with alignment to increase turn-in and aid handling. I've found that I can retain or increase handling traits and loosen up the tune at the same time playing with camber (in creasing negative camber - or bringing the tops of the tires closer together). Toe also comes into play in rare cases, but excess toe will scrub speed and decrease strait line stability.
  6. As for Rebound and Bump, I will tune these last if need be, but I have found that SMTC does a good job on them. I will adjust them LAST if the car is bouncing or skating. I've found several great resources online to educate myself in how suspension dynamics work. you can use rebound and bump to help weight transfer between front and rear, as well as tuning the suspension to bumpier tracks like Nurburring Grand Prix...
  7. I also tune the transmission for top speed and shift points, but to start, you should just set what SMTC spits out and forget. Once you get the supsension tuning down, play with the trans...
  8. For braking I usually leave it at 50% and tune it by feel
  9. For the diff on RWD and FWD, I leave it at what SMTC spits out - For AWD, I will leave the front and rear diffs at SMTC numbers, but I will adjust the center diff by feel starting with the SMTC as a base.


4. Do you adjust everything you can in the car and then test it out, or do you find yourself adjusting one thing at a time and see if it helps?
Refer to above... I start with a base tune and test, tune, test, tune and so on...

5. Do you keep adjusting one thing until that adjustment gets you to where you wanna be? Or do you put it back to the default location and go to adjust something else?
I keep tuning once one piece is done... The suspension is a system, so one thing will affect the other. You have to adjust them together, and I will make several passes and fine adjustments. I will also save as I go. When I get to a better tune, I will save (see below) it and keep going. If I screw up, I just reload my last good tune or the base. The trans and brakes can be done apart, but are still connected to the overall suspension performance.

6. Are there certain "default values" you guys look for in the telemetries in your replays?
Yes... I already covered the Suspension and Tire Heat ones above, but I will also utilize the tire grip meter (first telem screen) if I feel like the front tires are just not gripping in turns. I will also use it to adjust the brakes if need be, but I find keeping it a 50% works good for me... Brakes are really a personal preference item and driving style related... On some cars I find that using the suspension telemetry screen to smooth out the power bumps works well too. The back strait on road atlanta is a good example. There are bumps there that will make the rpm's jump up. While you cannont take them out completely without sacrificing other aspects of handling, you can sometimes subdue them a bit.

In regards to 6, I know things like tire temperatures should be between 180-210dF and the inners should be no more than 10dF hotter than the outters. Are there other things you look for while tuning that you feel help the easiest/most?
Keep an eye on your temps as you play with camber and toe. You should not have more than a 20df diff between the inner and outer edge. Also, if the center of the tire is hotter that the inner and outer, your pressure is too high. If the inner and out are hotter than the center, your pressure is too low. Also remember that tire pressure and weight have a direct relationship. A 3000lb car will require MORE pressure than a 2000lb car to maintain the right heat....

Other hints and tricks....
  • Remember that handling until the tires come up to temp (roughly 3-4 minutes of hard racing), handling will be different. The car may not turn-in well on cold tires, but will turn-in great once they heat up. Every test I run is at least 3-6 laps (or 5-10 minutes) to ensure the tires have enough heat in them. I also test with the tire heat up on the HUD to the far right. That gives me a good idea of heat, and will also show me if they are starting to go greenish-yellow as time goes on. That shows that the tire pressure is too low, so I will pop up the tire heat telemetry while testing to check it out.
  • Use the Test Lap function in the tuning shop. Remember that you can adjust the tune ON THE FLY while hot-lapping there. It's a great feature, and you don't have to bring the tires up to temp over and over again. However, It will restart the session automatically if you LOAD a tune.
  • PARTS PARTS PARTS - Know your upgrade parts. Tuning starts when putting on upgrades. Choose wisely, and remember that in most cases weight is you enemy (roll cages trade weight for stiffness, which aid handling tremendously. Though in lower class tunes (C and below) the full cage is usually not needed. I start with Suspension and brakes, then drivetrain, then tires, then aero, and save engine for last. If you want to tune a converted drivetrain/engine/aspiration, then set the parts to default and start from scratch starting with the conversion and going from there....
  • I also use a naming convention for the tunes... This helps me identify class and state of the tune. I will clean up tunes from time to time and have deleted good tunes by mistake, so I started using a system. Since FM4 tags the tunes with the car info, you can get VERY basic with your names without overwriting tunes for other cars with the same name.
    a base = the A-class base tune for a car - this allows me to see what each tune was for for each car when filtered
    a1 Rd Atl = the 1st tweaked tune for Rd Atl
    a final Rd Atl = the finished tune for Rd Atl
    a final gen = the final general tune
  • Tune with the controller FIRST. Once you have a good tune with the controller, create a seperate tune for the wheel. keep them seperate.
  • Enlist others to test your tunes. Their feedback is extremely important, and you will learn a lot!
  • Ask for help.... I am happy to spend time in a party with you helping you tune...
  • FWD cars are totally differnt...
    * The rear wheels simply follow the fronts. They will not build up heat, so don't try...
    * Keep the weight up front - That means tune to keep front to back weight transfer to a minimum. jack up the rear-end a few clicks above the front works well as a start, and you will most likely be playing with Rebound and Bump as well.
    * Camber Camber Camber
  • AWD is difficult... Why? Turn-in SUCKS
    * CAMBER CAMBER CAMBER!!!!
    * TEST TEST TEST!!!!


EDIT 1: The last thing I will offer is that as you progress with tuning, you will be able to lay down tunes very quickly. factors like ride height, tire width, driveline, etc. will give you markers for an advanced start. One day (and I mean this) everything will "click" and you will really start to understand how to set-up cars... You will even be able to lay down quick tunes with-out the need for any tools, and just go by experience. They won't be as dialed in as the ones you spent time on with the tools, but they will be good enough to have fun with (I tuned the transit this way and it's a ton of fun)...

EDIT 2: A note on "General" tunes. There is no such thing. There are "Lobby" tunes that are general, but that's just because you don't know which track you will run. A "General" tune is one that is built for "General" handling (decent turn-in and grip), max speed, and "General" compliance over bumps. There are major differences between tracks. While you may not see them by just driving, you will definitely see them when tuning. You may not see much difference between Road America and Road Atlanta, but I can tell you the differences are pretty big. Road America has mostly high-speed turns, and a few lower speed ones that are easy. That requires more high-speed grip. Road Atlanta has two critical high speed turns, but the "snake" (after turn 1) and the Ess after the back strait require a tune that not only handles well, but a chassis that transitions well.. Road America does not have the same transition requirements. Tuning for the transition is tough, especially on Atlanta. You need to ensure you get good speed on the back strait, but also a fast transitioning set-up. You have to play with Aero, ARB, Trans, camber, and toe (on some) to get the strait line and corner speed as well as the transition compliance...

Finally... DON'T GIVE UP!!! You will get VERY frustrated, but power through it. It will all come together, I promise... If you get stuck, ask me or Frank for help (remember Frank is my mentor)... Very Happy


Last edited by BiggLou55 on Wed May 09, 2012 7:31 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Insanefrank on Wed May 09, 2012 6:05 pm

First the answers your Questions.

1. Is there 1 or 2 specific things you focus on first with every tune?
A: Yes, after I tried the car I change some values intuitively and some changes are experience values.

2. Do you prefer to use something like Slave Munky's calculator or start from scratch yourself?
A: I use no calculators.

3. Do you have a specific pecking order of things you adjust? For example, Tire pressures, ARB's, Camber, Spring rate etc etc until you have the feel you want in the car?
A: look at 4

4. Do you adjust everything you can in the car and then test it out, or do you find yourself adjusting one thing at a time and see if it helps?
A: I change many values right at start. First I adjust the Tire pressures, Camber, Toe-in and out then I make the ARB's and Springs softer and reduce the right height and adjust the differential.

5. Do you keep adjusting one thing until that adjustment gets you to where you wanna be? Or do you put it back to the default location and go to adjust something else?
A: look below at my example.

6. Are there certain "default values" you guys look for in the telemetries in your replays?
A: Yes, tire heat and tire heat balance

In regards to 6, I know things like tire temperatures should be between 180-210dF and the inners should be no more than 10dF hotter than the outters. Are there other things you look for while tuning that you feel help the easiest/most?

Here comes an example how I tune a car.

After a test run in stock I change the tire pressure to 28,5 PSI.
Then I put the Camber to Front -0,6 and the Back to -0,5 and set the Toe-in to 0,1 and Toe-out to -0,1.
After that I go to the Anti-Roll-Bars and make them softer the same for the springs and dampers.
Now I adjust the differential depending on how many torque the car has the higher needs the value to be.
Now begins the hard and time consuming part.
First I ran test how the car feels and adjust it to get it controllable then I adjust Aero the gears and breakes to get the best out of the car and after every change I run tests.

Thats a very short description for a pretty long process.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Wed May 09, 2012 7:39 pm

Note... I've added several things to my post so, please re-read if you've read it already...


Cash.... You've gotten a glimpse into how differently Frank and I approach tuning, but in reality, we do the same things... The more you tune, the closer to Frank's method you will get. In order to get there, you have to learn HOW to tune and WHAT to tune and WHEN!... What I wrote is NOT how I tune today, but how I tuned when I was learning. My methods are closer to Frank's now (and just over the past few weeks), but I still use the Calcs (SMTC and XSF) to quickly set up a balanced base tune. From there I play with SMTC percentages to get the tune I want. More and more I am "free" tuning like Frank, and then recording my tunes in SMTC spread sheets (or as close as I can).

There is not a right or wrong way to tune as long as you are getting the results you need. You may find that you need to readjust how you tune from time to time, but overall you have to discover a system that works best for you....
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Insanefrank on Wed May 09, 2012 7:50 pm

BiggLou55 wrote:More and more I am "free" tuning like Frank
That comes with experience and it makes more fun without calculators. There are some things you know how to react after tuning many cars.

BiggLou55 wrote:There is not a right or wrong way to tune as long as you are getting the results you need. You may find that you need to readjust how you tune from time to time, but overall you have to discover a system that works best for you....
Thats right as long you drive fast with the result. Very Happy

Nice Edit 2 in the OP Lou. You hit exactly the point there.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by MFKR RAMBO on Wed May 09, 2012 10:37 pm

Damn Lou nice novel. Im not going to add much since it was covered really well but ill toss a few of my things I do in.

First thing first im going to use an example car. So I just purchased me a brand spanking new C390 Civic Type R EK9.

1. So now I take it to a track it to a track that I am very familiar with. For me, most of the time it is Laguna Seca. Turn some laps to get times consistent to get a base line.

2. Decide on your ending built class. Im going A600. For *most* A class cars, im running race tires. Purchase your tires and your width. Typically I will go full width on the front and a little thinner on the rears since this car is FWD. Then I'm into tuning. Fronts down to 28.5 rears at 30. Back to the same track and start turning laps. Pull the telemetry up once and a while checking pressures and temps. The reason I will run thinner tires on the rear is because the rears on a FWD are basically the person working the dumb end of a tape measure. A car needs four and they are there to make it happen. They are harder to heat up so running a thinner tire assist with that. If you temps are now hovering around 31.5 to 32.5 and close to 200 degrees but not much higher (thats the number I shoot for. Leaves a little room for added heat from a lock up or skid) your good. Then Ill usually compare my new time to my base to see what I have gained.

3. Next I do my brakes. These are quick and easy. Full race is typical for me. Go back to your track. If its a tight track with no long straights, go to one that has one. Switch to the outside few of the car after doing a lap or two to get the tires to temp. Get up to speed and stand on the brakes while watching the side of the car. You are looking for which locks first front or rear. If your front or rear is locking first adjust the bias accordingly. You want all four to lock at the same time. A car with way to much rear bias is no fun under a lock up. They tend to slide around real bad and dont stop well since the weight is shifted to the nose of the car. Now onto pressure. This is kind of a personal preference in a way. I dont mash my brakes to often so I normally run 95% to 105%. A person who pulls that trigger all the way back would be better of starting at a lower pressure level until they have gained the muscle memory to not smash that button all the way in.

4. Onto suspension. Full race springs. After they are on the car and you are in the tuning shop, either remember or write down the spring weights. I take the calculator on my phone and usually make them around 15-20 percent stronger. Example race weight is 650lb fronts after I add 20% it goes up to 780lbs. Camber I allways start out with .8 negative front and rear, toe is .1 front and -.1 in the rear and ride height at lowest possible. Now onto the track again. Get tires up to temp. First thing I adjust is camber. Rail some corners and watch it or run a few laps and save the replay and watch it there. This way is good that way you can focus on driving and not watching a number. You never want to see positive camber. Adjust as needed. This is also when you check your temp across the tires. Try and keep the inside of the tire 10* hotter than the outer. If your outers are too hot, add in some negative camber, inners are too hot remove some negative camber. Now I do the toe. I never run more than -.1 in the rears and very rarely I go over .3 in the front. The front toe will help turn in and the rear negative toe will help with stability. The problem with running two much is the car at high speeds in the front is very unstable due to the front toe increase and the tires will overheat and wear much faster. Now I get into the springs. Okay since this car is FWD, I want to have a decent amount of rear spring to keep the car from wanting to squat coming out of corners to keep as much traction as possible under hard acceleration. This for me is a little more trial and error. Ill raise it a bit make some laps and then compare times. This is why I say pick a track you are very familiar with because it help increase your consistency. Now this has a happy medium. If you add to much spring, the car will become very unstable over rough surfaces such as the runway at Sebring. The main thing that I look for on the fronts in braking. If the car is not transferring weight well due to too high front spring load, I will soften up the front to help the weight shift. The more weight you can transfer to the front the more efficient your car will be under braking. For me personally, I like a stiffer feeling car so I try and take the least possible. Also just like the rears two stiff and the car will become very unstable over a rough surface. Now time for rebound and bump stiffness. For my rebound I usually increase them by them by half to a full point to help out with stability. With the bump ill usually raise them both by a few points (say I increase by 5%. Not add 3 points to both. This applies for rebound as well.). This helps with corner exit grip. Just remember after you make a change test a few laps and see if it has helped or hurt. If your car feels like it is bottoming out, after all the suspension adjustments, increase your ride height. To me bottoming out is not the end of the world. There are some spots such as the corkscrew that your car will bottom out so if you feel your hitting under very hard braking in one corner, I leave it but if your hitting a lot increase your ride height until your not hitting anymore. I also recheck my brakes and tire temps now as well. Sometimes with adjusting the suspension, the brakes and tire temps will need a bit of fine tuning.

5. Rollbar time. Go purchase them and open up the tuning section. I take my factory number and start out with a 10-15 percent increase just like I did the springs. I like my car to be able to change direction. Ill usually go to a track that has some harsher curbs to do the final setup on these. You have these two stiff and you will never want to run Maple Valley again in your life. If you have them set to high, under very hard cornering your car will want to pull the inside tires off the ground especially if you make contact with the curb. So just like everything else there is a happy medium. That is why I start at 10% increase and go up till I feel good about it. Again watch your lap times to make sure you are improving. I cant stress this enough. The car my feel good but might not be quick.

6. Gearing. Time to decide if you want to give up the extra PI for that race trans or stick with the sport. Really in a lot of applications, a sport is good. Back at your track, exit your corner before the straight at speed and run down wide open into the braking and brake. Try and keep one eye on your tach. You want the car to be almost redline. This leaves room for drafting, late braking or overall better driving. I try and have my cars in 5th or 6th at the top end of the longest straight depending on the size of the track. If you went with the full race trans, you can adjust your 6th gear to help with straight line speed. If you want to adjust the rest of your gears, you need to know your peak torque and the rpm you hit it. Say you make peak torque of 325 at 6100 rpm with a redline of 9000. Shifting from first to second, you want second gear to begin at 6100 or a little before depending on your torque curve. To see your torque curve just go and view your dyno sheet in the upgrade shop. Continue to do this for each gear. If you chose the full race trans, I suggest waiting to change every gear until you have maxed your class with power adders because max torque and rpm will all change.

7. Almost done I promise and I really feel bad for somebody that is reading this rubbish. Aero time if you want it. To much aero and the car is slower on long straights with faster tire wear and to little and the car will not stick as well in the corners. I tend to run lower numbers on my cars and make the suspension work more with a little aid from the aero. Once installed on the car its set right in the middle. Ill lower it a ways and then start. If the car is feels like its still wanting to oversteer really bad, ill add some to the rear to help out there especially on a RWD car. Again and if your still reading this (your just as crazy as me LOL) run test laps to see if you helping the performance.

8.Now I max my PI number with power gainers. Always race cams first, then after that I look and see which upgrade gives the most torque and go from there. After you are done with that go buy your 2 way diff. Back to your track of choice. On exit of corners, pay attention to traction loss and the way the car is under or oversteering. Since this civic is FWD, im looking for understeer. Really push the car now. If you are understeering really bad, lower the percentage for acceleration until on corner exit the car might spin a bit but your not driving right to the grass/sand/wall on exit because you are spinning both wheels. For decel I allways put mine to zero. Turn laps and check times. Of coarse you are going to see a big increase now with the power adders. While running these, check everything else one last time to ensure it is where you want it.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by MFKR RAMBO on Wed May 09, 2012 10:59 pm

Its nice reading the similarities and differences in our process to gain our desired final results. By the way. I am no where near or would consider myself *an great tuner*. I have learner with trial and error and reading online. Im not the fastest either it usually takes me a good few hours to get a car to the point of my liking and then a little more to work on some fine adjustments.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by CASH XRS on Thu May 10, 2012 10:39 am

Awesome, thanks so much for this so far guys. And Rambo, your light years ahead of me and some others as well lol. This is all great stuff guys. My biggest thing wasn't not being able to fix things, it was what to adjust in certain situations. As mentioned prior, I was tuning for the wrong freaking track lol. However, I was happy that I now understand how to adjust camber to fix the tire temps and things like that. I am gonna jump over to the quick question thread in a bit, but this is such a great insight. I was happy I was able to get the tire temps within 10dF from inside to outside and the temps are hovering around 180-195 so I was happy to understand that. I look at it as one thing to understand down, a good handful to go.

Now in regards to "General" tunes, is it best and easiest to just throw the info and desired class into SMTC and just use that as a generally tuned car for any track? For example if we are just messing around in a lobby together and do different classes and tracks, I wanna be able to have a decent car wherever we go, so is my best bet to just have a lot of cars with base tunes and just REALLY hone in on the Series race cars? I only ask because I dson't wanna spend a TON of time on cars that may be used anywhere?
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Thu May 10, 2012 11:25 am

CASH XRS wrote:...Now in regards to "General" tunes, is it best and easiest to just throw the info and desired class into SMTC and just use that as a generally tuned car for any track? For example if we are just messing around in a lobby together and do different classes and tracks, I wanna be able to have a decent car wherever we go, so is my best bet to just have a lot of cars with base tunes and just REALLY hone in on the Series race cars? I only ask because I dson't wanna spend a TON of time on cars that may be used anywhere?

You are talking about a lobby tune.... It won't be the best on any track, but it will be relatively competitive. Select three or so tracks to test your tune on. You want to ensure the gearing is set to get to the most speed from the car in most situations (except drag and drift racing). You want to ensure it has good turn-in and grip in low and high speed corners. You want to ensure the chassis transitions well.. You are going to have to compromise with a Lobby tune, and the first thing I compromise on is top speed, but without affecting acceleration.

TIP: You can somewhat counteract a higher down-force setting by shortening the gears. Using the SMTC, you set a lower top speed than the benchmark showed. That will give you a proper shifting tune for that top speed across all six gears.. While it lowers the top speed, it will give you more acceleration.. Be careful though... If you get too close in the gear ratios, you may create too much wheel spin and hurt stability...
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Thu May 10, 2012 12:07 pm

Here is a link to some of my more recent tuning files... Not all of my fine tuning is recorded, but you can see how I work the percentages and work in the alignment section...

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bz4OFHHLsSxmbjBDTUFYam5sNEU

Let me know if you have any questions...
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by CASH XRS on Thu May 10, 2012 1:48 pm

I gotcha Lou, and that's all I want. A decent handling car for whatever track may come up. I just hate that like 95% of my garage is stock or just has a few parts thrown on. I really want have like a customized garage. And something like a car or two for specific tracks. Like have one or two B class cars that are good for say Maple Valley and Indy, and one or two B class cars that are good road Road America and something else with longer straights. Etc.

I just wanna start enjoying the game more, tune a little, paint a little and add to my garage with whatever car I feel like buying lol.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Markve91 on Thu May 10, 2012 1:49 pm

My way of tuning is pretty much a mash up of everyones methods. Ill use a calc to set some values and see if I like it. Then its all tuning by "feel", and by driving style. Some people prefer a more loose tune, some prefer the opposite, its all up to you.

Another thing I'd like to add, it kind of refers to tuning. But there's 2 parts to tuning...choosing parts, and then actually tuning those parts.

The build(upgrades etc...) will usually shave seconds off your time, many many seconds.

The tune on the other hand will maybe shave off a second or 2. What I'm saying is, when you tune for a track, make sure you've got the BUILD you want before you tune.

Some speed tracks wont need race tires or all that forza aero, sometimes you can take it down a notch and throw on some more HP to get that better top end. Just my 2 cents!
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Thu May 10, 2012 2:09 pm

CASH XRS wrote:I gotcha Lou, and that's all I want. A decent handling car for whatever track may come up. I just hate that like 95% of my garage is stock or just has a few parts thrown on. I really want have like a customized garage. And something like a car or two for specific tracks. Like have one or two B class cars that are good for say Maple Valley and Indy, and one or two B class cars that are good road Road America and something else with longer straights. Etc.

I just wanna start enjoying the game more, tune a little, paint a little and add to my garage with whatever car I feel like buying lol.

That is what I do... Once you get the hang of it, tuning up to a "lobby" tune doesn't really take much time... I threw a 2008 ZR-1 together last night in about 15 minutes from car purchase to decent "lobby" tune.... I have at least one car tuned for every class... Well... Except for R1 and X.... Wink
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by CASH XRS on Thu May 10, 2012 2:10 pm

Markve91 wrote:My way of tuning is pretty much a mash up of everyones methods. Ill use a calc to set some values and see if I like it. Then its all tuning by "feel", and by driving style. Some people prefer a more loose tune, some prefer the opposite, its all up to you.

Another thing I'd like to add, it kind of refers to tuning. But there's 2 parts to tuning...choosing parts, and then actually tuning those parts.

The build(upgrades etc...) will usually shave seconds off your time, many many seconds.

The tune on the other hand will maybe shave off a second or 2. What I'm saying is, when you tune for a track, make sure you've got the BUILD you want before you tune.

Some speed tracks wont need race tires or all that forza aero, sometimes you can take it down a notch and throw on some more HP to get that better top end. Just my 2 cents!

That's a good point Mark. That was one thing I was wondering, like if you have a lower class B car and wanna make it a top end C class, you obviously can't do everything you want to it. So just be smart with what you pick in the upgrade shop as well? I normally focus on race suspension, roll cages and weight reduction first and then go from there.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by CASH XRS on Thu May 10, 2012 2:11 pm

BiggLou55 wrote:

That is what I do... Once you get the hang of it, tuning up to a "lobby" tune doesn't really take much time... I threw a 2008 ZR-1 together last night in about 15 minutes from car purchase to decent "lobby" tune.... I have at least one car tuned for every class... Well... Except for R1 and X.... Wink

And that's all I really hope to obtain. Just have a few decent geenrally tuned cars in each class so I have some fun pickins whenever we race various circuits and classes.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Markve91 on Thu May 10, 2012 2:26 pm

That's a good point Mark. That was one thing I was wondering, like if you have a lower class B car and wanna make it a top end C class, you obviously can't do everything you want to it. So just be smart with what you pick in the upgrade shop as well? I normally focus on race suspension, roll cages and weight reduction first and then go from there.

Yeah it generally applies when you cant put race EVERYTHING on the car. Then you really want to think about what upgrades you're putting on. That'll generally apply to the lower classes though.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Thu May 10, 2012 2:27 pm

Yup... What that also does is teach you how to tune for each class...

I love tuning for C and B class because each tune is VERY different. Some cars need more grip and others need more HP. You really have to choose wisely (as Mark mentioned) when building the to the class. Or.. You can take Rambo's approach and build a bit then tune, then build some more... As we've stated, there is no wrong way to tune as long as you are getting the results YOU want...

Also... Mark is SPOT on with the race aero and tires... Road Atlanta -vs- Road America is again a great example. The Shelby Daytona I built and ran on America ran like CRAP on Atlanta until I did re-tuned AND rebuilt the car.... For America I had Race aero bits front and rear and a fully wound out trans. For Atlanta, I was only able to run in the low 1:34.xxx after tweaking the aero and chassis transition. I rebuilt it with stock aero, some additional HP, and then tuned the trans... I can hit 160 on the back strait and it's just right in the turns (a little loose with lots of grip and transitional compliance). I was able to run a 1:30.xxx in testing on Road Atlanta with the rebuilt tune! Wink
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Markve91 on Thu May 10, 2012 2:33 pm

BiggLou55 wrote:Yup... What that also does is teach you how to tune for each class...

I love tuning for C and B class because each tune is VERY different. Some cars need more grip and others need more HP. You really have to choose wisely (as Mark mentioned) when building the to the class. Or.. You can take Rambo's approach and build a bit then tune, then build some more... As we've stated, there is no wrong way to tune as long as you are getting the results YOU want...

Also... Mark is SPOT on with the race aero and tires... Road Atlanta -vs- Road America is again a great example. The Shelby Daytona I built and ran on America ran like CRAP on Atlanta until I did re-tuned AND rebuilt the car.... For America I had Race aero bits front and rear and a fully wound out trans. For Atlanta, I was only able to run in the low 1:34.xxx after tweaking the aero and chassis transition. I rebuilt it with stock aero, some additional HP, and then tuned the trans... I can hit 160 on the back strait and it's just right in the turns (a little loose with lots of grip and transitional compliance). I was able to run a 1:30.xxx in testing on Road Atlanta with the rebuilt tune! Wink

All this building and tuning advice should help you and everyone else for next weeks race. Aero or no aero...race/sport tires. That is the question Wink
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by CASH XRS on Thu May 10, 2012 3:10 pm

I gotcha. I guess now it's a matter of gettin to it!!! I only plan on really tuning for Series races. Other than that I just want general lobby tunes.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Thu May 10, 2012 3:10 pm

Yeah... Sunset is going to be very interesting... Very flat and very fast.... that transition to the banked turn will be very interesting as well... Very Happy
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Eric21477 on Thu May 24, 2012 7:52 pm

When tuning for no aero, what value do you put in the xtreme skills calculator? 0's or is there a base value?
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Thu May 24, 2012 10:45 pm

Use whatever value you have set in game... Changing the Aero will change the spring rates... If you are not using race aero, then set it to zero (0).
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Eric21477 on Thu May 24, 2012 11:15 pm

That's where I was unclear, the no race aero value. I have been using zero for that, just wanted to be sure. Thanks!
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by Vlagra DUH on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:35 pm

Want my spread sheet?

I don't use any programs and do everything on my own. Just 1 tab at a time.

I just do all handling things first then go back and do gears and stuff last. Compare benchmarks. When i get a nice benchmark setting i just test drive it. If i need it a little more grip i go for it, or if I'm over-steering then ill take it down a notch on the grip and up the acceleration.
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Re: How Do Tuners Tune?

Post by BiggLou55 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:53 pm

Viagra... I have a spread sheet i put together for calculating Spring Rates... It's based on the Xtreme Skills formula, and is very handy for dialing spring rate... I have a link somewhere here in the Student section... Wink
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